Thursday, September 6, 2007

Hey, we are all sinners. Get over it.

John Pitney on moral questions at the presidential debate last eve.
Early in the debate, there was a discussion of Larry Craig. Toward the end, a college student asked Rudy Giuliani whether his personal life sets a good example. Together, these two moments suggest a question that will haunt Republican candidates for all levels of politics. In light of Craig, Vitter, and God-only-knows-who’s-next, some voters will ask: “How can Republicans preach about moral issues when so many of you are moral menaces?”

It’s a tough question, but Republicans could turn it around in support of conservative principle. Here’s one way to answer: “Everybody on this earth is flawed. That applies to members of my party. It certainly applies to me. And precisely because we’re imperfect, we need policies that support the better angels of our nature. Schools should teach about virtue. Children should have the chance to pray if they wish. And couples should have every encouragement to choose life.

“That’s what our party stands for, and I’m proud of it.

“The question isn’t whether the messenger is faultless. It’s whether the message is right.”

This way, Republicans could stand firm without inviting charges of moral arrogance and hypocrisy. And the acknowledgment of human imperfection has the added advantage of being true.
So, the question is - is this good enough perspective for you Republican cheerleaders out there?

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14 Comments:

Blogger Don Jones said...

Another moral question for most Republicans out there is how could you be so adamant about pro-life yet hold to a pro-war foreign policy, one that now includes pre-emptive war for most. It's similar to those Democrats who want to murder babies but save whales - I just don't get it.

Since it seems that at least part of Huckabee's platform is that he's such a great Christian and we must vote for great Christians (even though they may be socialistic), I wonder what he thinks Jesus would do (WWJD), specifically when it comes to foreign policy? :) Would Jesus fight 'jihad' with jihad? Hmmm... Seems that most Christians are too heavily influenced by Tim Lahaye, John Hagee and company.

That's just some reasons why it's so hard to believe these guys - and I'm a Christian.

I am glad and surprised that Ron Paul won the debate. I only hope that one day he will be able to explicate, in a public 'debate', his positions on our fiat currency system, the Federal Reserve and the dangers we face from them. He's written books on this. Due to his positions on economics, I consider him greater than even Thomas Jefferson.

Don

September 6, 2007 at 1:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Republicans don't sin. Remember, the Republican Party is the party of Jesus. If it seems a Republican sinned just remember that it's Clinton's fault. And 9-11 changed everything...and if you aren't with us you're against us. And if you elect a Democrat the terrorists win.

September 6, 2007 at 10:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wish he would have started his comments with the part,

"The question isn’t whether the messenger is faultless. It’s whether the message is right.”

The fact that morality isn't the construct of Republican conservatism rather God's nature should be the focus of a response about the need to talk about moral issues.

I think don should do a little more research on Mike Huckabee before he says those prejudiced things about him - he has the decency to read about Ron Paul's positions on things and understands that he has more to offer than 30 seconds blurbs during debates. Can't you do the same for the others?

September 7, 2007 at 10:01 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Truth is so obscured nowadays, and lies so well established, that unless we love the truth, we shall never recognize it. — Blaise Pascal

September 7, 2007 at 10:12 AM  
Blogger aedney said...

I think it is a well scripted excuse. The fact of the matter is, either you live up to your billing or you do not. Of course it is going to be a big deal if you are a priest that molest kids, because you shouldnt. Yea, its going to be a big deal if you are a firefighter that starts fires. A cop that steals. Republicans billed themselves as Doodley Do Rights. They have to accept when the reality does not match up to that self-proclamation.

September 7, 2007 at 1:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

…Well I guess I’m just argumentative…But if the question “How can Republicans preach about moral issues when so many of you are moral menaces?” was asked to me in a debate, and especially if the moderator used an example of, or was eluding to Larry Craig’s mishap and Giuliani’s Marital situation…I’d ask the moderator to first clarify immorality for me. Because if he is saying that one man seeking after sex from another man is immoral, I’d have to agree. If you are saying that a man who is now working his way through his third or fourth wife after scandalous behavior is immoral, I couldn’t agree more!
So Mr. Moderator, now that you and I agree that homosexuality and adultery are immoral let give you some advice. Vote Republican! Sure there are bad apples in every bunch…but as a whole the Republican Party will stand for the values we hold dear. And also, as a whole the Democratic Party don’t believe in such a thing as immorality…of course they have their bad apples also…
Oh well…just my take on it…

September 7, 2007 at 2:10 PM  
Blogger Don Jones said...

jason bridges said, "I think don should do a little more research on Mike Huckabee before he says those prejudiced things about him - he has the decency to read about Ron Paul's positions on things and understands that he has more to offer than 30 seconds blurbs during debates. Can't you do the same for the others?"

Actually, Jason, I have done research on Huckabee, so I am not indecent as you imply.

A few of his positions include farm subsidies (because as he says - we need to feed ourselves as part of our national security), 'fair' trade (whatever that means), the 'fair' tax, and for remaining in Iraq.

I disagree with every one of the above mentioned 'policies' among many others. Underlying most of his policies is a nationalistic interpretation of the Constitution as opposed to a compact theory of interpretation, which was espoused by Abel Upshur, John Taylor of Caroline, and most of the Founding Fathers.

Critiques of his economic positions and the disasterous effects of them can be found in books like Henry Hazlitt's Economics in One Lesson, Ludwig von Mises's books Human Action and Socialism, George Reisman's book on Capitalism, and many of Murray Rothbards books. I'll spare you the details.

If the things I say about him are 'prejudiced', then so be it. I think I have good justifications for holding the beliefs I do.

The reason I specifically mentioned Huckabee was because of his 'spat' with Ron Paul and because of emails being sent that pretty much imply that he's 'God's candidate'.

Regards
Don

September 7, 2007 at 2:45 PM  
Blogger aedney said...

Well Kevin, I think its just a matter of what you value most. I feel that I am as good of a Christian as the next man. I have always felt that anyone that looked at party affiliation as the main determining factor for being a good Christian was not considering all. There are more sins than homosexuality and abortion. I really try to follow the mandates as laid out in Matthew. From my perspective and for me, the Democratic Party best does that. For you, you may see things differently. But as long as Republicans give off the aire that they are "better" Christians, they will be subject to this type of response. Actually, what type of Christian you are should be determined by your fruit, not your mouth.

September 7, 2007 at 3:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You are very right aedney, homosexuality and abortion are by far not the only sins. Abortion I did not mention...and I only mentioned homosexuality because it was alluded to in the original post.
And I do not vote party lines...I'll vote for the best candidate regardless of party affiliation. I am just saying that AS A WHOLE the Republican Party is more in tune with moral values.
I truly do not want to imply that a democrat CAN NOT be moral… that would be absurdity at its highest! I know plenty of them who have touched the heart of God more than I ever will.
And you may be one of them...
Have a great weekend...later.

September 7, 2007 at 4:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“Everybody on this earth is flawed."

But not everyone on earth claims a position of moral superiority.

"That applies to members of my party. It certainly applies to me. And precisely because we’re imperfect, we need policies that support the better angels of our nature."

More "do as I say, not as I do"? That's been the Republican line for over 25 years and it's getting old.

Schools should teach about virtue. Children should have the chance to pray if they wish. And couples should have every encouragement to choose life.

It would be nice if children had EXAMPLES of virtue. Too bad they can't use the guy who wrote "The Book of Virtues".

Pray, children, that the Democrates and Republicans won't have sold your country out to the point of being bankrupt.

Choose life? I thought America was all about getting to choose between a 60 hour work week and having the children being raised by daycare and the public school system? Billionaires rule; Fundamentalist Christians are their tool.

“That’s what our party stands for, and I’m proud of it.”

Yep.

September 7, 2007 at 4:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We can all be cleansed of sin if we just put a little money in the church's offering plate! Yiiiii-hawww!

September 8, 2007 at 1:21 AM  
Blogger Don Jones said...

Probably the best video I've seen on YouTube is "Ron Paul: Don't Tread on Me".

or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG_HuFtP8w8

Regards
Don

September 8, 2007 at 2:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good Republicans and good Democrats have got us where we are now.

RonPaul2008

September 9, 2007 at 11:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'd vote for Ru Paul before I voted for Ron Paul.

September 12, 2007 at 3:46 AM  

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